Its actually called a cryderman mucker, and it was used to muck the shaft bottom. The cycle at Centennial went as follows:
The crew advances the rail to the face at the shaft bottom.
The 3 boom Shaft sinking drill jumbo was lowered and the blast holes drilled.
The crew advances the rail to the face at the shaft bottom.
The holes are loaded and fired advancing the shaft another 10ft or so
The cryderman is put onto one skip track, a skip on the other
The hoist drum containing the cryderman, is unclutched from the other drum (turning the skip drum into the only moving drum)
The cryderman mucks out the shaft bottom, into the skip (it has a reach of just over the length of one drill round)
The crews bar down and get ready to bring in the jumbo again.

There is a good book on Homestake’s operations at centennial that has pictures of the cryderman in action. They are still used today for shaft sinking. This one is neat because they usually were cut up after the shaft was sunk, but Homestake never finished #6 shaft to its planned depth before the program was cut in 77. This is probably the only reason this girl survives today. I dont think the shaft was advanced much past the 5500 exploration drift.

ignore the 1st item in the cycle above, I got them out of order the 1st time after checking my notes, it goes drill, rail, shoot, muck. Sorry

Joe – I figured if anyone would know you would.

Your comment also illuminated for me the entire Homestake operation – which I knew nothing about until you mentioned it. It seems after doing a quick look on the internet I discovered that while C&H (Universal Oil Products) did in fact abandon the mine during the strike in ’69, a second company (Homestake Mining) de-watered and rehabilitated the shaft in the early 70′s in an attempt to deepen the shaft in search of greater copper reserves. The operation was apparently a failure and the shafts were abandoned in the late ’70′s. This explains the relative intact state of both the Centennial #6 and #3, and also explains why this piece of machine was still there.

As always Joe, your expertise in mining history is extremely helpful to me and my readers. Keep up with the great comments!

No problem, I wouldn’t say that it was a failure, Homestake had a regional exploration program which included Quincy No. 8 Shaft (Mesnard), Centennial, and Kingston as well as a grassroots program which identified the S543, and serveal other sulfide deposits, S543 had development started, they got 2 blast rounds into the decline in the 1990′s before it stopped. The Centennial Calumet workings were shut down early in the 1900′s, C&H moved the No 3 Shaft headframe to tho the No. 3 Shaft and befang dewatering and deepening No. 3 Shaft to the 3600 Level. From the 3600 they drifted over to the present No. 6 Shaft and raised No. 6 Shaft from the 3600 to the surface (instead of sinking), and installed the current surface complex. Including the short No. 7 shaft and the mine air heater to the north of #6 near the swamp (which is now the drain for the entire mine) Some mining was done on the 3400 and 3600 but not much. The strike finally came, and shut it down and the pumps were turned off. By the time Homestake came in the mine had just started to fill so they skip bailed it out (used rock skips to bail water instead of pumping). Homestake was operating on the the theory that the calumet conglomerate’s grades would continue at depth, so they started a system of deepening and sunk the shaft to about the 5500 cutting shaft stations every 100 feet, and a considerable amount of drifting was done. They also built the pilot plant mill at the No. 3 Shaft complex and started milling ore onsite, and did produce concentrate. Eventually Homestake Copper Co. underwent a management change and they pulled the plug on the UP operations…

The mine reflooded and it sat empty until the mid 1980′s when a group of investors (locals including Peninsula Copper) bought the mine and dewatered it again. The mine stayed dewatered until about 1992 when they finally went bankrupt. During this period the mine was dewatered to the 3600 but not to full depth, and preperation for mining took place but no milling of rock ever occured. The mine still has promise to be dewatered again, since most of the equipment is still onsite and would require a minimal amount of work to resume dewatering. Hope still lives!

I did a project on this mine for my mineral economics class. if there were a close working efficient mill then they could reopen the mine and as long as copper prices stayed at 2.75 a pound. then the payback period would be 3.5 years as long as the lode stays at its 1.8% cu content. as for other deposits there is a vast amount of copper still. and thats Known copper.

does anyone know owns all the centennial property/mineral rights??

Geoff, e-mail me at jadase@mtu.edu I can get you the information, I would be interested in the details of your project (Im a mining emgineer who does feasibilities for a consulting company)

Cheers Joe

Does anyone know how the Cryderman mucker got its name or who it was named after? I live in Virginia and visited the Copper Country this last summer.

John..
I don’t know how it got its name (I didn’t know what it as called until Joe showed up) but from what I have learned about mining equipment it was most likely named after the guy that invented it. Thats been the case for Wilfley tables, Frue Vanners, and many other pieces of speciality equipment used around here. So there’s a good chance you might be related to them. Keep checking back, someone who knows is sure to chime in sooner or later.

This thread explains why the Centennial was lit up and looked like it was operating during some of my trips to the UP in the late 1980s & early 1990s — because it was!

With the current high price of copper now there must be some plans to reopen some of these old lodes.

It always struck me as odd that C&H was not able to continue with all the diamond drilling they did in the 20th century. Except for a few minor finds, the old saying that the ancient miners discovered all of the major ore bodies really seems to be true. I wonder what the current state of exploration — if any — is going on up there?

Back 10(?) years ago or so, I spoke with a Kennecott guy at Ladysmith and at that time he said they were beginning to do a “literature search” about the native copper deposits in the UP and in Wis. Maybe nothing came of it as I never heard anything more.

Joe,

What’s the name of the book about Homestake’s operations at Centennial?

Well not Joe here, but I have a little book that was called “Homestake”, by Randy Sabo. Its about 20 pages total

I think Gordy is right, I’d have to check the book I have but I belive it was by Sabo.

The January 1965 Engineering and Mining Journal (E/MJ) had an article in its “This Month in Mining” section on the C&H’s plans to open both the Kingston mine and do extensive work at the Centennial #6. The article said that the C&H hoped to have the #6 at full production in 1967. Then they would then close 6 of 7 “high cost” marginal mines. The estimated production would be 25,000 ton per year. The June 1967 E/MJ went into more detail on the estimated size of the deposit they intended to mine. The deposit contains 10 million “measured” ore, 22 million tons of “indicated” ore and 3 million tons of “inferred” ore. It was estimated that the copper content was 1.5% or approximately 30 pounds of copper per ton. The ore was estimated to be 3000 feet deeper than than current mine depth of 5000 feet. This would allow the company to double its production of refined copper. It was estimated that it would be 5 years before mining could begin and would cost $9,000,000. Yes the January 1965 article said the #6 would be in full operation in 1967. Then the June 1967 article said 5 years before full production would begin. The 5 year time seems more realistic with the amount of work they have to do.

The first phase would involve crosscutting and diamond drilling from the 36th level of the Centennial #6 to test for “lateral extension” of the ore body to the north. This would take 18 months to complete.

where all of these the same?

there’s one sitting at Osceola 13 if so,
i just caught that

sorry, it didnt post

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/snockerpaintball/100_0199.jpg

Jay, when was that photo taken? Rumor has it that the mucker was removed from Centennial so perhaps it made its way there at Osceola. It sure looks to be almost an identical match…

That would be it!

*forgot to add, they are all mostly similar, but a Cryderman wasn’t used at Osceola, they used slushers and scrapers… The hard way! The again it has been said that if C&H had a nuclear powered mining machine, they would have pulled it to the face using a donkey…

The photo was taken In September, and im positive that there is no mucker at centennial, and it never dawned on me till last night that your post about it wasn’t at Osceola, but at centennial, Im pretty sure that it was at Osceola in Late August, through current, and it is set up nice and neat on rail road ties, Maybe it has something to do with the hoist being removed as well?

The hoist at Osceola is still in place, the hoists that are on the ground are the Kingston Hoist, the Centennial No. 3 Steam hoist and the Centennial No. 3 Electric hoist (one double and two single drum hoists). It was rumored that the hoists were bought by a salvage company, however if they were the company did a very poor job at removing the hoists (judging by their condition in October, I wouldn’t buy them).

There gonna rust away to pieces, i wonder if the salvage company took the mucker? Its big and heavy and isnt the kinda thing ya throw in the back of a pick up truck and move,

And i remember reading that they are shaft specific so it doesn’t make much sense to wanna buy one.

I was told the mucker was from 1st empty lot on the west side of the street south of the US41 and Calumet Ave intersection on Calumet Ave. It had been there for many years. It was at Osceola when I took photos of the hoists in early Sept. I also noticed one of the skips had been moved around a bit where the mucker is sitting.
Tend to think that since the price of scrap has went to heck, they won’t be going anywhere now at least for scrap.
I had wondered why the hoist control panel sittin there had a label on it saying Kingston, now it makes sense.
Like to take that steam hoist back indoors and piece it back together.
At least they took the hoists apart without using a torch

Well, comparing my four or so pictures of it to the pictures mike took, the two are identical,front to back same scratches, digs, dents, and paint pattern and everything the mucker began its life at Centennial number 6 and was than transplanted over to Osceola, I don’t know how old mikes post is, Id say around January of 2007 which means that mucker was moved in the last two years. it never dawned on me that it was at centennial until i looked for the page using “Osceola 13″ as the search…

Jay,
Hoists aren’t shaft specific, when you purchase a hoist you tell the vendor your loads, depths, speeds, payload (hoisting men only, muck only or muck and men), and shaft configuration and they will provide a hoist with the proper drums, drum sizes, clutching capabilities, etc. Also they can modify existing hoist for different duty cycles. The old steam hoists such as Quincy were more of one offs, however Quincy does have a sister hoist that is still functional, so they do share some similarities (size not being one of them). Basically your head frame design can compensate for any changes to the hoist that would affect your fleet angles on your wire rope (the make up is in the mounting plates to your Sheaves). The double drum hoist at Kingston (which is lying at Osceola now), was used originally on the 8100 level in the C&H mine for example.

Gordy,
The problem is they did use a torch to get them out, the main shaft on the Kingston hoist was gas-axed just inboard of the center main bearing, it looks like they didn’t want to take the time to de-rope the hoist properly and pull the drums… So now aside from its value as a static display, its only value is its scrap value.

Joe, I read Jay’s comment to mean the mucker was shaft-specific, not the hoists.

Dale,
I figured he ment the hoists, because of my comment about not wanting to buy them. Either way, the mucker isn’t shaft specific either, then can be modified to fit any skip road (on an inclined shaft). Actually these too travel from site to site, since it is a specialized piece of gear(in function), and once your done shaft sinking, its not really much use to you. The only reasons I think this one stayed at Centenial (now moved to Osceola)are decause it is an inclined shaft mucker. Inclined shafts aren’t that common any more, so there probably werene’t many operations in need of them. Also since the plug was pulled on Centennial pre-maturely I would assume it was left on site in hopes of coming up with funding to deepen the shaft later. Sorry to ramble with my mining Jeopardy answers…

Mining jeopardys always fun,

I had in the post that the seat matched the angle of the shaft, Now i know that a torch could fix this in a matter of a few minutes, but it was also stated that they where dismantled so i kinda figured the company would quickly put one together, use and then it would face the torch,

I understand that hoists are not specific at all, and i never knew they where underground until two days ago.

Joe, (or anyone else)

Whats the deepest shaft in the copper country

and whats Deepest shaft in the world?

Ive heard that Quincy 2 was the deepest at 9,650. Than i heard that this number was 5,200 and now you say Osceola had a 8,100 level. Im confused!

and Joe, you have a sweet job, to bad mtu shut down its mining program, I would of rather done that.

**I never knew a separate hoist was underground**

Jay — you’ve gotta be careful with shaft depths in the copper country, because sometimes they’re vertical and sometimes they’re not. Quincy was 9000+ feet on the incline, which comes out to rather less when you measure it vertically. I believe that the Tamarack shafts (which were vertical) might have beaten Quincy for vertical depth. But I’m sure Joe or explorer will drop in shortly with the exact details.

I believe that Red Jacket Shaft at one time was the deepest vertical shaft in the world. Not sure if that’s still the case though.

Joe, I had noticed the torch cut shaft when the photos were first posted here. It was rusty then, I have the feeling it was cut before this was disassembled. The cut didn’t look fresh at all. Since it was from Kingston, I wonder if the guy who owned that location may have done it and these guys just hauled it out?
Heres a link to the originally posted photos.
http://coppercountryexplorer.com/2008/08/11/the-removal-of-the-osceola-13-hoist/

Gordy,
You maybe right, when I was there in October, I thought ‘CRAP!’
I’ll check my sources to see if she was cut up prior to removal.

Jay,
Osceola didn’t have an 8100, but the C&H mine did, it was serviced by Red Jacket shaft. The 8100 level was at 8100 ft along the dip of the Calumet Conglomerate I believe, and Red Jacket was a vertical shaft so I believe the 8100 level was actually 5200 ft vertically (the Calumet Conglomerate is about a 40 degree dip). On that level they had more hoists that hoisted from even deeper sub shafts, this was common practice at several other mines including Champion.

As far as deepest Shafts in the copper country, Quincy has the market cornered on incline shafts, I think No. 2 is 9260′…? I am not sure on its vertical depth, since the Pewabic tends to flatten out at depth (its 54 degrees in the upper workings), but if we assume and average of 45 degrees, it puts the shaft at 6548′ vertically (which I think beats out Red-jacket and Tamarack, but I could be wrong).

As far as deepest shafts in the world (all in South Africa):
Savuka mine at 3.8km (about 12,500 feet)
However the Driefontein Gold Mine will be about 2.5 miles when its done!

I think that the shafts in the copper country are still the deepest single lift shafts in North America (Homestake is weeper but they were hoisting from underground sub shaft on their 4800 level). I should note that my company just started sinking a shaft that should take the prize as far as deepest single lift in North America, its in Arizona and will be just shy of 7000 ft when complete.

Finally, I was big time bummed when MTU canceled the program, I’m glad I got through when I did! Its a fun job, and it honestly never gets old

Speaking of shaft depths, I ran across an interesting article from the NY Times archive…http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=2&res=9401E1D91E3AE533A25754C2A96E9C94679ED7CF

Cool article, Jay!

Near the end it mentions that the miners had to wear rubber clothing because the water at the deep parts of the Red Jacket shaft was corrosive to human flesh. That’s the first I’ve heard mention of that. Anyone have any ideas what caused this? Is it something that’s worldwide making all deep mine water is corrosive, or something local to the CC or even to that particular lode?

Dale,
It was probably the high saline water that was found in the C&H lode. That would be my only guess, unless it had a low PH, which maybe possible…

I heard a story about my great-grandpa a shift boss, said that during the strike they had all the copper down in the ready to mine after the strike at Calumet and Hecla, but that strike never ended and the mines were closed. Did Homestake mining company get all that copper?

Grant,
I don’t think Homestake got anything out of the mine – copper wise at least. I think the whole operation went belly up before they even got de-watering complete.

Actually they got the mine dewatered, sunk the shaft from the 3800 to the 5500 (+/-) level and built the mill at No. 3 Shaft. They did do some stoping and produced (and shipped) some concentrate… However a down turn in copper, poor exploration results, and a change in management spelled the end for Homestake at Centennial. Some of the people involved later re-opened it as a private endevour in the last 80s to 90s… But as you know this didn’t meet with much sucess either.

We dropped By Centennial Number 6 today, And took A stroll, We heard loud creeks coming from the collar house and took a walk over there,

The vast majority of the collar house seems to have been filled with wood chips and sawdust now, Also, We spoke with a gentlemen doing work in the Hoist house, they are getting it ready to make Discs for motorcycle Brakes,

Im Afraid mining may be done for a while….

This is the new road they put in.

http://maps.google.com/maps/svpw?source=earth&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2Fmaps%3Fll%3D47.26407274%2C-88.42866905%26layer%3Dc%26cbll%3D47.26407274%2C-88.42866905%26cbp%3D%2C%2C%2C%2C&panoid=Rmvh7cWKMzX7SVyKirFsrw

I’m pleased that the new owners of the #6 seem amenable to people wandering around their land and photographing things (as I tend to do). Not that I imagined that they’d go tearing down a huge rockhouse, but it’s good to be able to get an up close and personal view.

I think some people volunteered for Google Earth to go around taking pictures of the world at Street Level View. There are many of these pictures around the area on Google Earth, mostly on Highways and different towns and streets.

I worked in them—sunk shaft at n0. 6 centenial–later at oseola 13 at mines closing–we took the foot out of centenial 6 old single shaft that was sunk 90% in the vain–guess in 1800s they wanted copper as they sunk it–later mines left most of the vain in back –hanging–it was stronger to hold up hanging that has slips in it and caves down easly–the old shaft was single–norrow shaft down to 9th level–first we had to drill roof bolts 3 ft in every direction all the way from 9th to cement collar we strarted first blasting foot and widening the shaft from 9th level up–all the old rails– timber ect were left yet from 1800s–there was a guys initials on first level south dated 1892 close to shaft–we took that out when we scrapped blasted rock down to 9th level and brought it across to no.3 to hoist up because new drilled shaft raised from 36th level drilled in foot under vain and didnt match the old shaft being higher we had to drill foot and widen old shaft being narrow to 22 ft wide–we used 12 ft rods to drill foot and had to wear rubber suits because the jump made by drilling foot was like a waterfalls splashing on us we would be soaked also when we charged them holes–steve dannis told us we should take extra dry clothes down–didnt like us going surface to get dry—after going about half way to collor –we needed ladder against that jump to bar the lose was mabe around 10 ft or more we went below old shaft–note– anyone going down that shaft would see the long timbers under shaft rails and how long shaft timbers from there up are–by way we left block hanging we forgot up in back –bet its still up there art putila was baring lose on that jump from ladder and it slid pushing ladder backwards plus falling the angle of the shaft down with him on top –was injured baddly –never worked again–he lived on pine st in hancock 7 kids he died not long ago–so vic jakoletto decide it was to dangerous drilling up so we moved to collar and drilled down hill–what a job drilled with no leg on jackleg pushing down with your feet laying on your back–hoes filled up with water and sand running down shaft so we charged holes soon as we pulled rod out–then basting all thre old rails–timbers were twisted up in rock and we had to triple block lot of that to get them out of dirt pile–we had to scrape the blast downhill with american derick compressed air engine–theres one at musium in calumet–we had it hooked with anchor bolts drillled into foot and chained—that was blunder —chain—carl bjorn one shift said let me run it for awhile—we took turns running tugger other guys would change blocks to either pull out old rails or timber and skid them into old drifts—the chains snapped and carl–BJ —by they his grandkids are great athletes like he was at calumet high—his leg was caught in tugger going down shaft–the 2 inch air hose broke off and was wipping all over the shaft–there was only 3 of us there in that mine then me carl and nibs speggnotti–his leg broke lose and the tugger stopped by 4th level—its in north drift yet where we pulled it badly damage carls leg was injured baddly–he big guy and we had to go climb to surfice and get gunlachs crew—working building shaft house– to come help us carry him up to where mancar was—they didnt have headlamps on there hardhats so made it harder–put my belt on carls leg to stop bleeding–he had guts–x marine– when we got to mancar he said lay me in with my legs facing upwards –i dont want to lose to much of that juice—back in sight to grant holmstrom tom was my boss at senica-played football with his son gerald–also know tom junior x professer at northern—the only copper that was left was what the last miners blast had–most copper I seen working in 6 diff mines was on 35 south after blast stope shined like gold faded fast after air hit it–can see why calumet–hecla conglomerate was so rich–my dad started in hecla 6 in 1911–was almost killed there loose in head –was killed later in 1953 greasing rollers at no.4 kearsarge copper city–if anyones interested in names of workers in 1915—there a ldger book in basement at engineering building full of names that gave 5-or 10 cents to mc naughton for reopening mines after 1913 strike–like he needed it–my dads in it under hecla mines and wifes grampa louis klobuchar on page before guess they knew one another yrs ago–tony shuty

yes tom holmstrom is my late great-grandpa and gerald is my late great uncle, and my grandpa is tom junior.

According to information in this report the “Key project” at Centenial #6 and #3 produced over 5 mil lbs Cu from 188,000 tons ore over 18 months in the 1970s. ” the mining operation ceased due to low copper prices and the completion of the exploration objectives….”
Page 8 and 44.
http://www.highlandresources.ca/i/pdf/NI-43-101-Final-Report.pdf